Displaying messages 39690 through 39699 of 92307.
2/7/02 6:07 PM - Post Number: 39691
Black Bird
Content Categories RavensTalk
Subject: The Cap
Comments: If you want to win in the NFL you will eventually have to face the capologist.
Be thankfull that we have a team and that we have XXXV.
Now who do we draft #24 and pay millions to?
Seats:
2/7/02 6:24 PM - Post Number: 39692
Poe Boy
Content Categories
Subject:
Comments: 58---Big Nasty Crow is not a bandwagon fan...He was one the original posters of this board and the one that preceeded it. He does not miss a game and one hell of a tailgater...
He has been a die hard RAVENS fan since day one..
POE BOY
there is NOTHING better than being a RAVENS fan!!!!!
Seats: TAILGATING with POE BRO and the BEST OF FRIENDS on LOT G!!!!
2/7/02 6:58 PM - Post Number: 39693
Raven Maniac
Content Categories RavensTalk
Subject:
Comments:
BNC:
Ditto!!!!!!!
Seats:
2/7/02 6:58 PM - Post Number: 39694
Big Bird
Content Categories Fans
Subject: Big Nasty Crow & 58Colts
Comments: Ravens Nest #9, Palm Coast FL Branch
He doesn't need it and I am not trying to start something, but I'll second Poe Boy's comments about taking BNC's blind side.
Ever heard of continuous process improvement? It is a concept of continually striving to improve. It is diametrically opposite of accepting what you have and shutting up. Many of us believe in continuous process improvement.
So we look at our football team's deficiencies and make comments on how they may be improved.
Seats: 529 Row 15 w/TBird when in B'more
2/7/02 7:11 PM - Post Number: 39695
58colts
Content Categories Fans
Subject: Raven Randy
Comments: I think you have it wrong -- YOU are showing the moron in Baltimoron. Please leave immediately and give us our good name back!!
Seats:
2/7/02 7:26 PM - Post Number: 39696
brownsrule
Content Categories
Subject: Tony Grossi
Comments: I saw some posts on here after Modell failed to get into the Hall of Fame blasting Grossi. Here is his explanation of the meeting, his speech and the vote.
BR
02/07/02
by Toni Grossi
The Cleveland Plain Dealer
Officials of the Pro Football Hall of Fame recognized the debate over Art Modell`s nomination last week would be a controversial one, so voters were reminded repeatedly that opinions expressed in the meeting room were confidential.
Nothing said in the meeting is supposed to leave the room. Confidentiality promotes an honest and thorough discussion of each nominee`s credentials.
`We consider this procedure to be perhaps the most important aspect of our entire process,` states a special letter that was sent to each selector prior to the meeting in New Orleans on Saturday.
Because The Plain Dealer honored the confidentiality agreement, editors chose not to disclose the fact that I was the only voter to speak against Modell`s nomination in the meeting.
But then the details were leaked to the Baltimore Sun, and the resulting story wasn`t completely accurate. So, we believe it`s time to set the record straight.
With pleasure.
A little background: A week earlier, I received a call from John Wooten, the former Browns guard and former Ravens scout, who tried to convince me Modell was deserving of induction into the Hall.
`What do you say to a native Clevelander?` I asked Wooten.
I felt then and still do now that as a native Clevelander representing the area on the Hall of Fame selection committee, it was my duty to educate the committee on the total Modell story. It was my duty not as a denizen of the Dawg Pound, but as someone who had knowledge of Modell`s place in NFL and Cleveland sports history.
Wooten, a good man, went on a lengthy discourse about how much he loved Cleveland, but he never quite addressed the question.
Last Wednesday in New Orleans, I received a call from Ozzie Newsome, the Hall of Fame Browns tight end, architect of the Ravens championship team, and a friend. He wanted me to hear his feelings about Modell`s credentials and his move.
After listening, I said: `I will not vote for Art. I will talk against him in the meeting. I feel it`s my responsibility as a native Clevelander to do that. But I will not politick or campaign against him prior to the meeting.`
Newsome said: `I appreciate your honesty. That`s all I can ask for.`
Campaigning does take place on occasion prior to the meeting, and it can do more harm than good. The Ravens took it to the extreme in the week prior to the vote.
Kevin Byrne, the Baltimore Ravens` public relations director, sent all voters - except me - a packet of information that included his perspective of Modell`s move and a copy of a pro-Modell perspective written that week by a Baltimore columnist. Wooten phoned several, if not all, of the voters. Even coach Brian Billick made a few calls to friends who were voters.
In the meeting, the discussion on each candidate is initiated by the representative of the city in which the candidate spent the majority of his career. In Modell`s case, that assignment fell to me.
At the appropriate time, I stood and announced: `I will not endorse Modell`s nomination here today. However, in the interest of fairness to this process and to Modell, I feel those that do support him should speak first.`
Six voters stood and talked on behalf of Modell. One by one, they spoke of Modell`s contributions to the league - his 31 years as chairman of the NFL broadcast committee, his role in promoting the NFL-AFL merger by agreeing to move his team to the new AFC, his unwavering support of former Commissioner Pete Rozelle during difficult times. One supporter credited Modell with pioneering `Monday Night Football.`
On the issue of moving the Browns, Modell`s supporters argued that Al Davis moved the Raiders - two times - `and he`s in the Hall of Fame.` Another made the case that Modell deserves credit for all the new stadiums built in NFL cities - out of fear of losing their team as Cleveland did.
When it came time for me to speak, I was glad my comments were prepared in text form. It was stressful and emotional, but I did not break down, as the Sun reported.
`Let`s take a closer look at Art Modell`s record,` I began. `He fired Paul Brown, he traded Paul Warfield, he released Bernie Kosar in the middle of a season with his team in first place. In his last 21 years in Cleveland, his teams were 13 games under .500. Then he capped it all off by moving the Cleveland Browns out of Cleveland.`
I pointed out that to merit the Hall of Fame, a `contributor` has to put the good of the league ahead of his own good - all the time. And when he secretly signed a deal to move the Browns to Baltimore to ensure his team would remain in his family`s control, Modell put his self-interests ahead of the league`s.
Contrary to his plea of `I had no choice,` Modell had two other choices. He could have come clean and clearly stated his financial plight and said he would move if he did not get a new stadium. Or he could have sold the team. Each choice was more honorable than the one he made.
Modell`s nomination came down to one question: Did his service to the NFL prior to his move outweigh the critical decision of his career? I argued that it did not.
His role on the TV committee was put in perspective when, in 1993, he sought to give the networks rebates for bad ratings Modell resigned from the committee under fire, and new owners came back with a contract that increased revenue, and then multiplied it. His move to the AFC was not so bold when one considers the $3 million incentive offered by the league. Pioneer of `Monday Night Football`? He merely offered to host the first game when other owners feared a box office disaster.
I said that time may heal the wounds of Modell`s move of the Browns, but the time is not now. `I shudder to think what that ceremony in Canton would be like if Art Modell were put in the Hall of Fame,` I concluded.
The vote of 35 selectors (three of the 38 were absent) was conducted after all other nominees were discussed. The first vote knocks down the list of 14 modern-era nominees to 10. It was announced that there was a tie for the 10th spot, increasing the next round to 11. I was shocked that Modell did not make the first cut. Other voters later told me they were turned off by Byrne`s campaigning, but, ultimately, they did not feel Modell`s credentials were worthy.
As one said, `If he was so worthy, how come he never was nominated before the move?`
As the meeting broke up, Byrne already was being informed of what went on. He was in full spin mode, blaming the rejection on me for holding a grudge against Modell.
He felt that I still blamed Modell for being removed from the Browns beat by The Plain Dealer in 1990 over a controversial story that contained one false paragraph. I was reinstated long after editors involved in the story left the newspaper. It was an unfortunate episode in my career from which I learned a lot and have long put behind me.
Byrne sees my stance on Modell`s Hall of Fame nomination as a grudge. I see it as a responsibility.
Seats:
2/7/02 7:36 PM - Post Number: 39697
Raven Maniac
Content Categories RavensTalk
Subject:
Comments:
brownsrule:
With respect. A link to the article would have served the purpose. I only read about 5/6 paragraphs and I have the same opinion of Tony Grossi that I formed after hearing him on a local talk show. He is self serving. IMHO.
He is the last person that should have presented Modell's case. If in fact he is as straight forward and honest as he and you would have us believe, he should have excused himself from the process altogether.
He enjoyed what he did, said and accomplished, and he is reveling in the aftermath.
Seats:
2/7/02 7:58 PM - Post Number: 39698
RavensLand
Content Categories RavensTalk
Subject: Grossi
Comments: Grossi can shove it up his ass.
Art WILL be in the HALL OF FAME.
Grossi just couldn't leave it in the room.Under the umbrella of having to come clean. What a joke. What a pathetic excuse for a reporter. No ethics.
Irresponsible
Seats: The Ravens' goal is to go to and win Super Bowls
2/7/02 8:10 PM - Post Number: 39699
brownsrule
Content Categories Fans
Subject: RM
Comments: How do you put a link in your message??
BR
Seats:
2/7/02 6:05 PM
- Post Number: 39690
Black Bird
Content Categories
RavensTalk
Subject: Here we go again
Comments: The team was built to get Modell his Super Bowl before he retires. We were built to win XXXVI but injuries prevented that. We got him XXXV instead.
The organization knew that we would have to suffer for a few years post Super Bowl. That's the way the NFL is designed.
This isn't MLB.
Jacksonville tried the same method and failed to get their Super Bowl.
Seats:
2/7/02 6:07 PM - Post Number: 39691
Black Bird
Content Categories RavensTalk
Subject: The Cap
Comments: If you want to win in the NFL you will eventually have to face the capologist.
Be thankfull that we have a team and that we have XXXV.
Now who do we draft #24 and pay millions to?
Seats:
2/7/02 6:24 PM - Post Number: 39692
Poe Boy
Content Categories
Subject:
Comments: 58---Big Nasty Crow is not a bandwagon fan...He was one the original posters of this board and the one that preceeded it. He does not miss a game and one hell of a tailgater...
He has been a die hard RAVENS fan since day one..
POE BOY
there is NOTHING better than being a RAVENS fan!!!!!
Seats: TAILGATING with POE BRO and the BEST OF FRIENDS on LOT G!!!!
2/7/02 6:58 PM - Post Number: 39693
Raven Maniac
Content Categories RavensTalk
Subject:
Comments:
BNC:
Ditto!!!!!!!
Seats:
2/7/02 6:58 PM - Post Number: 39694
Big Bird
Content Categories Fans
Subject: Big Nasty Crow & 58Colts
Comments: Ravens Nest #9, Palm Coast FL Branch
He doesn't need it and I am not trying to start something, but I'll second Poe Boy's comments about taking BNC's blind side.
Ever heard of continuous process improvement? It is a concept of continually striving to improve. It is diametrically opposite of accepting what you have and shutting up. Many of us believe in continuous process improvement.
So we look at our football team's deficiencies and make comments on how they may be improved.
Seats: 529 Row 15 w/TBird when in B'more
2/7/02 7:11 PM - Post Number: 39695
58colts
Content Categories Fans
Subject: Raven Randy
Comments: I think you have it wrong -- YOU are showing the moron in Baltimoron. Please leave immediately and give us our good name back!!
Seats:
2/7/02 7:26 PM - Post Number: 39696
brownsrule
Content Categories
Subject: Tony Grossi
Comments: I saw some posts on here after Modell failed to get into the Hall of Fame blasting Grossi. Here is his explanation of the meeting, his speech and the vote.
BR
02/07/02
by Toni Grossi
The Cleveland Plain Dealer
Officials of the Pro Football Hall of Fame recognized the debate over Art Modell`s nomination last week would be a controversial one, so voters were reminded repeatedly that opinions expressed in the meeting room were confidential.
Nothing said in the meeting is supposed to leave the room. Confidentiality promotes an honest and thorough discussion of each nominee`s credentials.
`We consider this procedure to be perhaps the most important aspect of our entire process,` states a special letter that was sent to each selector prior to the meeting in New Orleans on Saturday.
Because The Plain Dealer honored the confidentiality agreement, editors chose not to disclose the fact that I was the only voter to speak against Modell`s nomination in the meeting.
But then the details were leaked to the Baltimore Sun, and the resulting story wasn`t completely accurate. So, we believe it`s time to set the record straight.
With pleasure.
A little background: A week earlier, I received a call from John Wooten, the former Browns guard and former Ravens scout, who tried to convince me Modell was deserving of induction into the Hall.
`What do you say to a native Clevelander?` I asked Wooten.
I felt then and still do now that as a native Clevelander representing the area on the Hall of Fame selection committee, it was my duty to educate the committee on the total Modell story. It was my duty not as a denizen of the Dawg Pound, but as someone who had knowledge of Modell`s place in NFL and Cleveland sports history.
Wooten, a good man, went on a lengthy discourse about how much he loved Cleveland, but he never quite addressed the question.
Last Wednesday in New Orleans, I received a call from Ozzie Newsome, the Hall of Fame Browns tight end, architect of the Ravens championship team, and a friend. He wanted me to hear his feelings about Modell`s credentials and his move.
After listening, I said: `I will not vote for Art. I will talk against him in the meeting. I feel it`s my responsibility as a native Clevelander to do that. But I will not politick or campaign against him prior to the meeting.`
Newsome said: `I appreciate your honesty. That`s all I can ask for.`
Campaigning does take place on occasion prior to the meeting, and it can do more harm than good. The Ravens took it to the extreme in the week prior to the vote.
Kevin Byrne, the Baltimore Ravens` public relations director, sent all voters - except me - a packet of information that included his perspective of Modell`s move and a copy of a pro-Modell perspective written that week by a Baltimore columnist. Wooten phoned several, if not all, of the voters. Even coach Brian Billick made a few calls to friends who were voters.
In the meeting, the discussion on each candidate is initiated by the representative of the city in which the candidate spent the majority of his career. In Modell`s case, that assignment fell to me.
At the appropriate time, I stood and announced: `I will not endorse Modell`s nomination here today. However, in the interest of fairness to this process and to Modell, I feel those that do support him should speak first.`
Six voters stood and talked on behalf of Modell. One by one, they spoke of Modell`s contributions to the league - his 31 years as chairman of the NFL broadcast committee, his role in promoting the NFL-AFL merger by agreeing to move his team to the new AFC, his unwavering support of former Commissioner Pete Rozelle during difficult times. One supporter credited Modell with pioneering `Monday Night Football.`
On the issue of moving the Browns, Modell`s supporters argued that Al Davis moved the Raiders - two times - `and he`s in the Hall of Fame.` Another made the case that Modell deserves credit for all the new stadiums built in NFL cities - out of fear of losing their team as Cleveland did.
When it came time for me to speak, I was glad my comments were prepared in text form. It was stressful and emotional, but I did not break down, as the Sun reported.
`Let`s take a closer look at Art Modell`s record,` I began. `He fired Paul Brown, he traded Paul Warfield, he released Bernie Kosar in the middle of a season with his team in first place. In his last 21 years in Cleveland, his teams were 13 games under .500. Then he capped it all off by moving the Cleveland Browns out of Cleveland.`
I pointed out that to merit the Hall of Fame, a `contributor` has to put the good of the league ahead of his own good - all the time. And when he secretly signed a deal to move the Browns to Baltimore to ensure his team would remain in his family`s control, Modell put his self-interests ahead of the league`s.
Contrary to his plea of `I had no choice,` Modell had two other choices. He could have come clean and clearly stated his financial plight and said he would move if he did not get a new stadium. Or he could have sold the team. Each choice was more honorable than the one he made.
Modell`s nomination came down to one question: Did his service to the NFL prior to his move outweigh the critical decision of his career? I argued that it did not.
His role on the TV committee was put in perspective when, in 1993, he sought to give the networks rebates for bad ratings Modell resigned from the committee under fire, and new owners came back with a contract that increased revenue, and then multiplied it. His move to the AFC was not so bold when one considers the $3 million incentive offered by the league. Pioneer of `Monday Night Football`? He merely offered to host the first game when other owners feared a box office disaster.
I said that time may heal the wounds of Modell`s move of the Browns, but the time is not now. `I shudder to think what that ceremony in Canton would be like if Art Modell were put in the Hall of Fame,` I concluded.
The vote of 35 selectors (three of the 38 were absent) was conducted after all other nominees were discussed. The first vote knocks down the list of 14 modern-era nominees to 10. It was announced that there was a tie for the 10th spot, increasing the next round to 11. I was shocked that Modell did not make the first cut. Other voters later told me they were turned off by Byrne`s campaigning, but, ultimately, they did not feel Modell`s credentials were worthy.
As one said, `If he was so worthy, how come he never was nominated before the move?`
As the meeting broke up, Byrne already was being informed of what went on. He was in full spin mode, blaming the rejection on me for holding a grudge against Modell.
He felt that I still blamed Modell for being removed from the Browns beat by The Plain Dealer in 1990 over a controversial story that contained one false paragraph. I was reinstated long after editors involved in the story left the newspaper. It was an unfortunate episode in my career from which I learned a lot and have long put behind me.
Byrne sees my stance on Modell`s Hall of Fame nomination as a grudge. I see it as a responsibility.
Seats:
2/7/02 7:36 PM - Post Number: 39697
Raven Maniac
Content Categories RavensTalk
Subject:
Comments:
brownsrule:
With respect. A link to the article would have served the purpose. I only read about 5/6 paragraphs and I have the same opinion of Tony Grossi that I formed after hearing him on a local talk show. He is self serving. IMHO.
He is the last person that should have presented Modell's case. If in fact he is as straight forward and honest as he and you would have us believe, he should have excused himself from the process altogether.
He enjoyed what he did, said and accomplished, and he is reveling in the aftermath.
Seats:
2/7/02 7:58 PM - Post Number: 39698
RavensLand
Content Categories RavensTalk
Subject: Grossi
Comments: Grossi can shove it up his ass.
Art WILL be in the HALL OF FAME.
Grossi just couldn't leave it in the room.Under the umbrella of having to come clean. What a joke. What a pathetic excuse for a reporter. No ethics.
Irresponsible
Seats: The Ravens' goal is to go to and win Super Bowls
2/7/02 8:10 PM - Post Number: 39699
brownsrule
Content Categories Fans
Subject: RM
Comments: How do you put a link in your message??
BR
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